anyone found the trick with Bing?
i have no problem getting good ranks with google and yahoo but msn and bing i just cant seem to get in there.. i use the webmaster central and optimize and verify but it just doesnt cut through
Any tips?

Sam, in order to get bing to start indexing you is easy and not so easy...
in a nutshell, I have found that bings algo`s are really fine tuned to weed out the crap... (well most of it) and you only need to have one site that bing likes to get into its bots path...
Once you get well indexed inside the big B then relevant outbound follow links will get their well deserved rewards.. I have noticed one thing that I like about bings traffic, similar to yahoo, is that I see better conversions and more sales.
Google might send lots of search traffic but its more international traffic and lots from countries that cannot afford most things that we promote.
Whereas Bing & Yahoo search traffic comes mostly from North America , UK, Australia and most of the more richer European countries. There are a few other search engines that send me really productive traffic in regards to sales as these are a few that are paid services used at the corporate level....
Now, back to your question...what does bing like...
Well I think its all about original content, pages minus anything "Google" like adsense,etc...
Mobile content ( make sure your pages are mobile compatible ) , rich meta tags, use this generator , let me again state... "mobile content"

He who best indexes the next generation of most relevant sites to searck queries will be king and the king will be very hungry for mobile content. If you see in your stats these folders getting hit then you know bing has been knocking at your door...and most likely you weren`t home so to speak....
/mobi/ /mobile/ /iphone/ /and a few more I am keeping secret
Btw, thanks for the pm the kind words, words of wisdom, words of encouragement, etc... Lets hook up on Skype!

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Hmm yes that sounds like the case.. the mobile content aspect is a very valid point i shall start applying myself to that.. I do sometimes open my webpages in a phone to see if it displays or not.. most of them do but i am sure that they are absolutely terribly optimized for mobile.
Ill do some studying on that
What also occured ot me is that many of my pages have a long page load time which is almost definitely also an aspect to consider
The anti google matter is also valid i see yourr point
What i find most interesting in what you say is the fact that msn bing and yahoo DO tend to convert more than google - obviously for the reasons you have given above. To be honest i have never "contemplated" this matter till you mentioned it but as soon as i read your words, i see this to be the case and thats definite.
If i were to explain the same point in my typical crass and impolite manner i would say the the reason for this is that dumbass people who "surf and buy" (typical consumers/victims) are the ones who have msn as their homepage
I have missed studying the mindset of this marketplace and this kind of consumer which is to my great detriment (because i do make little conversion rate for the amount of interest i get on my blogs and websites)
I am now seeing that stuff like sak-yant.com has thousands of self written original content pages in a cult niche but for the thousands of page impressions per day i get there are hardly any clicks
This is because the people are coming from google and they are the same kind of personality as me (anarchistic ex hippy who downloads hundreds of albums free and never clicks on any "buy now button")!!
I now see its better to have some grandma who is looking for leather shoes or some housewife whose husband is an executive and leaves her bored surfing the internet buying any thing which catches her eye with her am-express card as a visitor than one thousand hippies who want everything for free.
this is why i am now creating a few test blogs before buying domains to see if i cant leanr about how to market some mainstream crap which the grannies and housewives will click on
like these i made them last night got bleary eyes doing it as not only design and post some content find affiliate programs to fit the nivhe etc.. i also had to learn to think anew with a website on a topic and market which i have never ever thought about. I have learned so much in one night that i thought my brain was going to bust.
I still need to experiment with them but im sure if i can conquer Bing and get some fo that quality traffic you are talking about then these niches which im delving into might bring me results. Heres the sites i made yesterday
Buy Cheap Flights
Lingerie Products
multimedia electronic
Hand Held Mobile

they still have google ads in them so they ain't Bing friendly but thats not the point why i started experimenting with these blogs.. im trying to get into targeting people who spend their money on higher priced articles
Till now all i was doing was selling the odd amazon book (and oyu know how cheap an amazon book is and low commision!) then i thought "hey if i can get three sales per month with amazon on one blog with books, then what if they were like 50 inch tv plasma screens or diamond rings instead of books?
And thats what im doing now
im stepping over to affs like linksynergy now - di do use clickbank too but i feel so bad about sending people to those sites marketed on clickbank they are all scams.. actually from looking at the pitch pages on clickbank i also thought about doing that; you know, making like ten one to 3 page sites with a high pressure sales pitch selling you pdf ebook and video tutorials that bullshit you into thinking you will make thousands of bucks a month like they do lol
Im still fighting with my guilt complexes and moral principles though about that.
I prefer using synergy linkshare because they have trustworthy affs like air france and stuff which means you can make commissions without really abusing anyone.


Anyway back to Bing and the point of the post.
Thanks for the really useful info Dave, they are relaly good tips and im going to spend this week studying mobile content and optimizing my sites for such
also making mobile specific sites too..
what about the podcasting thing? i dont have a clue about that.. when i do feedburner feeds for my blogs it always asks me to set up the podcasting options and get a blank when i think about it as i havent ever podcasted nor do i have an i phone or the like.
I hated mobile ever since that guy stole all our phones in the shop remember? lol what an asshole he was - we even worked his tat up for free whilst his gf snuck into the office and robbed us!
memories!

In regards, just read an interesting article about Bings new application for Iphones... confirms my thoughts about Bing and mobile content

Bing app for iPhones hits App Store - Yahoo! News

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Ill give it a read and get back to you
What i have concluded though is that your info given on mobile content and the importance of such is hyper important and valid
But, after being spammed by bing with 50 emails per minute last night for subscribing to a thread on "why is my site not indexed" (the thread recieved 480 dissatisfied member posts last night which resulted in me trying to disable the thread subnscription) - in those 50 eamils recived in less than 30 minutes i read the bottom which said "to unsibscribe from this thread please click here to do so" i "clicked here" and it took me to the thread.. but once there there was absoluteely no way to unsubscribe.,. the goddamned bing kept sending mails to my inbox at a rate so fast that there were so many appearing as i deleted! i then went to my user cp on bing and changed the email adress to one i have for recieving mass mail - this did not help, the mails kept coming to my hotmail adress despite having removed this adress on the user cp!
i then got really angry and tried to delete the account.. it was then that i freaked coz i couldnt find the option!
I then did a search "how to delete bing account" and the only thing that came up was this
Bing - How do I remove my Bing Community Profile Account? - Bing Community

if you read it you will only see four posts as they deleted the 3 i made last night and the second one from "Glenn" (who was the guy posting asking to delete his account)
it still appears stupid (the thread) but if you hadd seen it last night!
Last night it was like this;
Glenn;
"I recently filled out profile information for a Bing Community profile. I would now like to remove this profile completely so it does not appear in any search results. Unfortunately I neither see robot "no-follow" options nor any way to completely remove my Bing Community account. Can someone please explain to me how to leave the Bing Community?"

kersten (Owner admin of Bing forums)
Hi Glenn,
"I am happy to delete your profile. PLease just verify your name and account information and I can remove it.
Thank you,
Kristin - Bing Community Manager"


Glenn;
"Thak you Kersten! can you tell me where i can send oyu the info so others cant read it here"


kersten (Owner admin of Bing forums)

Hi Glenn,
"I am happy to delete your profile. PLease just verify your name and account information and I can remove it.
Thank you,
Kristin - Bing Community Manager"

Me;
"haha same answer two different questions
kersten's record player is stuck and got a repeat on it"

kersten (Owner admin of Bing forums)

Hi Glenn,
"I am happy to delete your profile. PLease just verify your name and account information and I can remove it.
Thank you,
Kristin - Bing Community Manager"


Me;
"Hi kersten - seeing as oyu are a robot, can you suck my xxx?"

kersten (Owner admin of Bing forums)

Hi Glenn,
"I am happy to delete your profile. PLease just verify your name and account information and I can remove it.
Thank you,
Kristin - Bing Community Manager"


this is whats going on on Bing!


500 dissatisfied people all posting in half an hour about their site not being indexed despite registration



summary
Dave you are right about Mobile content being important, but whatever bing is publishing about what they are needing for site indexing is not going to help because their scripts bots and whole project is a mess and does not work
if your sites are in bing and msn its not because you did what they told you to.. its because your sites are well placed, programmed and set up its that simple
Bing is not worth the hassle i have concluded this.
Lastly i recommend not signing up with them as you cannot delete your account your self. if you do sign up dont subscribe to any hot threads coz youll get spammed and you wont be able to unsubscribe
anyway
the thread on the site inclusions is here for you to see how crap Bing is
Bing - Sites not in the index - Bing Community
i am prepared to ignore Bing and tryb a different way to get indexed with msn
like using web ceo that worked last time ill download it again and use it thats not a bad tool
But mobile content .. Im really hot on the topic now Dave i believe you have seen the future of how we must optimise our sites

I like Bing I think it's ok but google is still the best for me. :-)

same here... google is still better in some aspect.. I like bing's new pics everday and the service it is integrated into like Wikipedia... it also has some cool features like bing Entertainment and visual search which is really cool.